Posted by Happiness08 (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I totally disagree with making the parents pay restitution. It wasn't the parents who did this! Make those boys work it off in community service. Working at the zoo every day after school would be a good start.

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

On the other hand, this puts all parents on notice that they are responsible for monetary restitution of any damages their kids do.

Posted by Emporiafan (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am glad they are paying....why should we the taxpayers pay it wasn't our fault they aren't being supervised or taught any morals...

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Absolutely the parents should be responsible for monetary damages and restitution. These boys are under the age of 18, therefore not responsible for debts, damages, or dastardly deeds in the eyes of the law. That makes their parents responsible for their actions and damages until the child attains the age of consent---18. And so it shoud be. If not the parent's job to teach these kids morals and proper behavior and monitor their activities, then whose job is it? Why should I pay for damages done by these fledging gang-bangers? Maybe the parents need a rude, and expensive, wake up call on how to raise a child.

Posted by madpoet (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope they divide the total cost of replacing the birds etc by three and make each family pay that much. Yes, one family will pay 2/3 but they had TWO hoodlums, one of which drove a car without a license. I hope the boys have to do community service too. They obviously have too much time on their hands if they can think up schemes to destroy property and kill defenseless animals. I wish I knew what it would take to be sure these boys would become good citizens instead of jail bait. The path they're on now goes straight downhill. Speaking to people who work in the county jail, they say they see the same people over and over again. Sad but true that some people can't learn from their mistakes. Hopefully these boys will straighten up.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As I see it, by reducing the burglary charges to criminal trespass and dropping the criminal damage to property charges, the two Rodriguez boys have been taught that they basically got away with robbery and damage to other peoples property, (some lesson !), the parents of these boys have learned that they will be held responsible for their childrens' actions .
I personally would like to have seen some kind of punishment and restitution ordered, if your going to try and teach wrong-doers a lesson it had better be a strong one with some teeth built in or your lesson will not mean a thing .

Posted by outdoorguy (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I imagine there's alot of manue to shovel down there. Sounds like a good plan to teach a lesson. Sometimes it take more than a pay out to teach a kid a lesson. Blisters tend to stick with ya more than a cancelled check.

Posted by mammawd (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The money would be paid by the parents anyway and they would only learn that they can be bought out of trouble...we have plenty of that already! Make them work off the debt at $1.00/hour until it's paid off. For EVERYTHING they destroyed. The parents should have to go to a parenting class and make a big donation to the zoo because they need to learn to supervise their children. If they were working and these were latch key kids then they need to learn that this age group is not yet responsible to stay home alone and hire a babysitter like the rest of us have had to do in our lives. Do the people that really matter read these blogs?

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Please don't read my post and think I am defending the violence of these young boys. I am not. However, if I am correct about one of the boys names, he has been in my home as a new neighbor showing off a puppy he got. My impression of this boy was that he was very loving and kind towards animals. I could be mistaken with names but I would never belive the sweet kid who was loving and kissing his dog could be capable of hurting others. The power of peer pressure is enormous and sometimes kids don't feel like they have the power or voice to stand up to their friends even if they know what's going on is wrong. I can only hope this experience is a valuable lesson for them to stand up for and think for themselves. I would like to see the young boys have to create some type of memorial or information about the value of these types of geese and swans. I hope our community can forgive these boys and do what we can to move on..

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pollyanna, I like your idea about having those kids create some kind of memorial to those birds. That way, the whole thing won't be soon forgotten. Also, what mammawd said bears repeating too, "The parents should have to go to a parenting class and make a big donation to the zoo because they need to learn to supervise their children." I firmly believe that if those kids were supervised properly to begin with, none of this would have happened. Now the parents need to use the carrot and stick approach. If the kid does something wrong, however small, remove privileges and do not waiver from the approach. It should be a long time for those kids to regain any kind of trust, no matter how much they wail their crocodile tears.

It would be interesting to know how their peers are handling all this. Surely they are back in school now.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

slap on the wrists.

Posted by dale011 (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

When we were their age my Mom would whip us with a willow switch - that she made us go out to the tree and bring in. I hated it and it hurt like h**l. It only took a couple of those to teach me right from wrong. A parent would go to jail for that now. Look at the result the "kids have to feel good about themselves" group has wrought. So OK we can't spank them anylonger, so what do you do with kids that behave like this? I agree with the rest - the kids should have to work at the zoo every night until they have paid for the damages, even though nothing can bring back the poor birds that died horribly.

Posted by lyonking (anonymous) on August 21, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Those kids should never be unsupervised around any animals EVER, especially 'working' at the zoo. Hope the zoo has tightened up security if that young of kids can get in at the spur of the moment at night.

Posted by luckycharms28 (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I feel that u all need to remeber that these are children and children sometimes do stupid things thats part of being a child I am not saying that what they did was not wrong but we also need to stop and think about what this children might have been through as far as possible abuse and seen in their own home .... we need to hope that these children learn from this and are able to become well law abiding citizens .... who are we to judge them? we have children and we need to put ourselves in those parents situation cause its always easy to sit their and critisize on someone else other than ourselves I do not think that we have a right to sit there and say that the parents need parenting skills cause as u all know no matter how well u educate kids still tend to mess up.... so if you do not know the families situation an parenting skills than keep your nasty comments to ur selves I just hope that this kids will be able to move on and not have everybodys hatred frigthened them and keep them from suceeding in life .....

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These comments are not "nasty," they're realistic. If you want to use the term "nasty" use it to describe what those kids did to those birds. Too many people today want to spoil the child, feel sorry for them, and blame their home lives. Horse feathers!

This was not sneaking out of the house to go smoke cigarettes or get drunk. No, this was a heinous and despicable thing that those kids did. They need to be taught what they did was wrong.

Posted by Emporiafan (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Create - could not have said it better myself.....this was not a simple "mess up" normal kids would have. Breaking a window or something....This was rage and scary. This will not be the last we hear of these boys either I can guarantee that.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I do not believe that anyone hates these kids, I think we all hate what they did and it's obvious to me that since at least one or two of them have been in trouble at school over the past couple of years that at least these two are going to be and have been a problem for some time now and if they are not punishend or chastized for their obvious lack of respect and care for life and the property of others, they will continue down a path of increasingly more violent crime, because its obvious to me that they just don't care !
It's also obvious to me that their parents also don't care what their children do to others. Respect for life, what belongs to others and yourself starts and is or should be taught by the parents in the home and apparantely these boys parents do not care to, nor wish to teach the right and correct lifes' lessons at home, therefore some kind of punishment for the children and monetary loss for the parents is, I believe a good start toward teaching the parents and boys that this kind of behavior is not what is expected of them nor will it be tolerated.
How about this for punishment for the boys.
Have them do 3 months of community service, ie, sweeping the downtown sidewalks, watering and weeding the downtown flowerbeds, or something to that effect, while wearing signs proclaiming exactly what their crimes were and their names.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

P.S. I don't know about anyone else in the community, but I am certainly sick and tired of seeing and hearing all of the out of control and disrespectful children of all ages being allowed to do exactly what they want.

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it's a sweeping statement to say that "it's obvious to me that their parents don't care what their children do to others." Methusla, do you personally know their parents? Have you witnessed their disregard for life? I don't know their parents and could assume lots of things about them and their child rearing skills. It does seem to look like behavior reflects parenting, but I know many very good parents who give 100% every day and still have kids whose behavior doesn't reflect values at home. Be it a chemical imbalance, mental issues, severe behavior disorders or other issues, its a slippery slope to assume all three of the boys' parents are awful parents who have no skills.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe that it is an even steeper and slipperyer slope to make excuses for these boys behavior such as chemical imbalance, mental issues, severe behavior disorders, etc.
After all there is too much and too many excuses used by the criminal and their attorneys to lesson or completely absolve the criminal from their criminal actions. Enough is enough. We all have stresses and problems in life to deal with, yet most of us do not take it out on others, Pollyanna, I guess by your reasoning, all of us who have stress and problems in our lives, but choose not to do harm to animals or others and show respect instead, have a chemical imbalance, mental issue, severe behavior disorder or other issues. And no I do not know their parents, but I still believe that any parent is willing to let their underage child do exactly what the child wants, knows exactly what the consiquences will inevitably be.

Posted by TacoBellB (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 3:40 p.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

methlusa

How do you know that their parents were willing to let their children do these acts? Perhaps they snuck out, perhaps one kid said they were staying at anothers house..there are all sorts of reasons why they may have not been supervised. The same reasons that most kids lie or sneak out or do things their parents are clueless about. My parents home was like Fort Knox yet my brother found a way to sneak out at least half a dozen times. I also don't recall making excuses for these specific boys, rather pointing out that there are some valid reasons for this type of behavior other than "bad parenting". It is easiest for us as a community and society to hurriedly point the finger at parents and assume they are bad. Maybe the moms and dads of all three boys are horrible parents..maybe these boys are indeed one step away from even more criminal behavior. I just feel it's an easy way out to jump on the "bad parenting" bandwagon when we don't know any true facts about the families. If what Tacobell says is true then it sounds like it is best that the boy/s are out of the home.

Posted by CoolGirl (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 5:53 p.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by luckycharms28 (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 6:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

we all need to move on hate is evil for a reason stop critisizing this parents and children kids make mistakes no matter how well we parent our children they could stray so we need to pray and hope this boys learned from their mistakes

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on August 22, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wrong, luckycharms: the behavior, attitude, and actions of a child is, bottom line, the responsibility of the parents. Who would you prefer we blame for the violent criminal acts of young people? Society in general? Socio-economic conditions? Enviroment? The parents, or more often, the parent, is ultimately responsible. It is their job to teach, nurture, inspire, motivate, educate, and monitor activity. Boil away all the conjecture and rhetoric and the remaining residue will be parental skills and disciplines. We reap what we sow. Junk in, junk out.

Posted by luckycharms28 (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You all dont get it do you !!! there is no perfect child in this world and no perfect parent eigther so quit critizing the parents who u all do not know and there parenting skills!!!! Kids will be kids and they to no matter how well educated make mistakes these are children we are talking about I hope they will get another chance in life to learn and grow from this and move on and have a positive future.. al though I doubt they will be able to do it here>>> its intresting to see how much attnetion this case has gotten but when you hear about childmolester not as much attention very intresting indeed granted I am not saying what they did was right because we can all see it is not ... but there are much worse stories we read in the paper that do not get so much attention!!!! oh well I am ready to move on and hope this is a rude awakening call for this children and families to learn fro this....

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Luckycharms, it is YOU who don't get it. There is no such thing as "kids will be kids." If that were true, ALL kids would be killing zoo animals or doing other depraved and despicable acts. Kids are not born to misbehave, but as long as people defend them with "kids will be kids" attitudes, they will never learn values. They will never learn the difference between right and wrong. They will never learn to respect other people. They will never learn to respect public or private property. They will never learn to make good choices, ever. Worst of all, they will never learn to respect themselves.

Ultimately, parents are the teachers of those values and mores. Not schools, not churches, not the rest of society. Bjnemp said it best, "junk in, junk out."

Posted by tj9802 (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 9:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to say that I do know these boys personally, and I do know their parents. I'm not going to get on my soapbox and tell you about their lives or how all of this has affected them and their families, but I will tell you that their parents do care. Their parents love their children, and although they haven't been perfect parents, they never imagined that their boys would do something like this. I personally know these boys and care about them, but I agree that they must be held responsible for their crimes. But it is not up to you to decide what happens to them, it is to be decided in a court of law. I do think it is your responsiblity as citizens to stop hating these boys for what they have done, even though their crimes are unimaginable. It breaks my heart to think they did this, but how would hatred help the situation. It doesn't! Although it's hard, we must try to forgive these boys. They will pay for their crimes somehow (as determined by the courts), but must they pay with their lives, don't they deserve a chance to become better people and turn their lives around? Who are we to judge?

Posted by apsuz (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Although I do not personally know these boys, or their parents, I agree with what tj9802 is saying. All the hatred being spread around in this case is not going to help these children. I make no excuses for their behavior, because I am not in a position to do so. I can speculate about what may have happened, but that doesn't change the facts of the situation. It is up to the court to decide what to do. I also have to agree with those who know there are "no perfect parents and no perfect children". I, too, was raised in a loving Christian (very active in church activities) and disciplined home and still found ways (without good reason) to sneak out in the middle of the night just to wander around town. Granted, I was never accused of breaking into anyplace or killing anything, but the fact remains that I was still out running around while my parents thought I was sound asleep in bed. However, there is a big difference between just "sneaking out" and burglery, cruelty to animals, etc. There are obviously some other issues going on here. Perhaps it's not in the home, but maybe even at school or someone else's home. If they are guilty, they should not only be disciplined for the crimes of which they are accused, they should also be required to attend extensive counseling both alone, and with family if needed, to get to the root of the problem before they become career criminals. Give these boys a chance to turn around and become productive members of society as they grow, rather than condemn them to become criminals for life because of whatever caused these outragous actions. My suggestion is a combination of community service, counseling and postive mentoring to show these boys that not only are they responsible for their actions, but also that they are worth more than this and that someone truly believes in them and that they can do better.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on August 24, 2008 at 11:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh h_ll ! Lets all of us who supposedly hate these boys and their parents, along with the judge, the justice system and the laws just forget what these poor little, innocent boys did and have done and just drop all the charges and let them and their parents of scott free, so that we can all molly-coddle them and see what kind of responsible citizens of the community they become, furthermore as I have said before, no one hates these boys, their parents or their families, but do not like what they have done or were allowed to do.
Also any child who does not respect their parents enough to follow the rules of the house set down by their parents,no matter how outragous or unfair the child may think the house rules are,such as sneeking out of the house in the middle of the night, instead of being in their room, certainly does not and will not have any respect for their parents and they don't even have to commit a crime while they are out of the house, disrespect comes in many forms, sizes and ages.
What exactly does the excuse "kids will be kids" infere anyway ?

Posted by AverageCitizen (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Unfortunately, there is a huge obstacle facing parents today when it comes to disciplining their children: the SRS. We still have the responsibility to raise the child; we just have absolutely no authority to do so.

I told my child that if she was going to live under my roof, she was going to live by my rules…and if she didn’t like it, she could pack her things and leave. My parents told me this at least once a month when I was growing up. I thought it was a statement of fact, not an actual choice. My 11-year-old turned me into the SRS who charged me with emotional abuse for daring to speak to her in such a way that would make her "insecure about her home environment". I told them to come and get the rest of her stuff.

This happened at the beginning of July and they still have her. They unsubstantiated the claim; which in laymen’s terms means that they declared that the charge of emotional abuse had no basis or merit. They still feel that she shouldn’t be returned to the home, but they haven’t provided a specific reason why. The real kicker is that the SRS investigator is under the age of 26 and has no children, but she is totally qualified to sit in judgment about a person's parenting skills; she read a book about it and did a report on it for school.

So nowadays, you cannot beat your children; and apparently, you cannot scold them either. It makes disciplining your children a somewhat difficult task. Take away the carrot, get a court date.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i also knew a family whose kids were taken away for three months based on a mere complaint, and the complainer was someone who was angry with the parent for something that didnt relate to the kids. after three months they decided the complaint wasnt true and the kids were returned, after they paid expensive attorney fees, and replaced things the foster home didnt return with the kids. i thought they had to PROVE abuse before taking the kids. there is little a parent can do to discipline kids these days, those who are still posting on this site must have raised their kids in the old days when discipline was the norm not abuse or neglect.

Posted by tj9802 (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mathusla, no one said they should get off scott free and be coddled. As I stated before, I know these boys personally, but I also believe they should pay for their crimes. What they did was WRONG, I think we all agree on that. You say that no one hates these boys or their parents, but that's not what I'm reading. If I'm getting the feeling of hatred from the words written here, don't you think they would too. No one says forget the crimes and drop the charges, just don't consider yourself the judge and jury!

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the way a criminal is treated by society is part of the punishment. long after a criminal is set free he still is judged by potential employers, schools, neighbors ect. dealing with the public's reaction to their crime IS part of the punishment, if they dont want others talking about them or judging them, maybe they should have stayed home in bed that night like good kids instead of going out and getting into trouble. parents today have less room to discipline their kids, but that is still no excuse for allowing kids that young to run loose. when their lives become miserable because the system is in their lives because of the decisions they made, maybe they will see the error of their ways.

Posted by create (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Average Citizen, I understand your frustration, and I'm sorry SRS got involved in your situation. I sometimes think that SRS is looking for cases because each case generates more state dollars. I can also see how some kids might use the system to their advantage. I hope your daughter learns that there is no place like home before long.

When I was raising my kids, if SRS got as quickly involved as they do nowadays, I may have found myself in court too. Aside from smacking their hands when they were small and touched what they shouldn't have, I never hit my kids. I yelled a lot, yes, and I took away privileges. But my kids were expected to do heavy-duty chores around the house. Their father died when they were ages 11 and 13. They had to help. We had livestock and a big two acre garden. It was nothing for my kids to pick beans and tomatoes, bring it all indoors and then help with the canning. They also took care of two steers, two sheep, a horse, a passle of rabbits, and lots of chickens. THESE WERE GIRLS! Their big privilege of the day was to go to the Peter Pan swimming pool. They did all their chores just to get to go swimming for several hours in the afternoon. On weekends, they went to a movie downtown. Those were my carrots.

I suppose if SRS were to get involved with me back then, they'd say I was guilty of breaking child labor laws. But you know, there is an indelible picture in my mind of me out hanging clothes, and just beyond the clothesline, them out in the garden picking beans. Afterwards the three of us would sit on the front porch and snap those beans, talk, joke, and throw beans at one another just to keep it interesting. This was in the mid-70's, not so long ago. Where did we go wrong?

When my youngest was in junior high, she stole a letter from the sign at Wallace's Stitching Post. When I found out, I marched her in there to return the letter and apologize to the owners. There was no television for a month and she had to wash supper dishes for two weeks by herself. She still talks about that lesson. I wonder what SRS would have done to me then?

Posted by emporialifer (anonymous) on August 25, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

slip makes a good point. Part of the punishment of criminals is how society will treat them even after their time is served. Perhaps that is what is supposed to also help keep people from committing crimes or it was back in the day when people actually cared about their "reputation". Most people don't want to be "known" around town as the person that committed that crime.

I'm sure people will argue it is not fair that criminals never get rid of their label as a criminal even after serving their sentence, but in all honesty would you personally hire someone with a criminal record?